Carbon Summit Sound Off at Commodity Classic, and the Role of Local Research in Ag Retail, with Christine Chitwood

When Nutrien Ag Solutions rolled out its Carbon Pilot Project last year, we knew that getting the idea from plan to execution was going to take a concerted effort by all our stakeholders—our sustainability team, our leadership and our growers especially.

So at Commodity Classic this year, we brought these stakeholders together for the Nutrien Ag Solutions Carbon Summit to find out how it went—what worked, and how can we build on the success of this program as we continue to scale up?

So in this episode, we parse the feedback we received:

What did they like?

What did they dislike?

What would an ideal carbon program look like?

What value do they see in other sustainability practices beyond carbon?

And what are their long term goals for their growing operations?

Unpacking this feedback with us is Christine Chitwood, Northern High Plains Division Research and Sustainability Manager for Nutrien Ag Solutions, who will share her unique insights as well.

Episode Transcript

Christine Chitwood:

I think it comes down to education and research. Just giving our customers and our sales people the opportunity to learn more about how they can actually apply these programs on their operation. And then, not only learning about the different options, but having whatever those options are be backed up with science.

Dusty Weis:

Welcome to The Future. Faster. A sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with our very own Tom Daniel, director, North America retail and grower sustainable ag, and Dr. Sally Flis, senior manager North America, sustainable ag and carbon. This is your opportunity to learn about the next horizon in sustainable agriculture for growers, for partners, for the planet. To us, it's not about changing what's always worked, it's about continuing to do the little things that make a big impact.

Dusty Weis:

On this week's episode, Christine Chitwood, Northern High Plains Division research and sustainability manager, joins us to discuss what was learned during last year's Nutrien Ag Solutions carbon pilot. And, what feedback growers had to offer at the Nutrien Ag Solutions Carbon Summit at Commodity Classic in New Orleans. But if you haven't yet, make sure you're subscribed to this podcast and your favorite app. Also make sure you follow Nutrien Ag Solutions on Facebook and Instagram. I'm Dusty Weis, and it's time once again to introduce Tom Daniel and Sally Flis.

Dusty Weis:

Tom and Sally, we're here in New Orleans. We've just completed the Nutrien Ag Solutions Carbon Summit here. You guys have been meeting with growers for the past few days here, learning all about the carbon pilot and some of the insights that they've been able to bring to us from a year of having been involved in this thing. What have we learned?

Sally Flis:

Well, we asked the growers that came to the Carbon Summit four questions in an interactive session. We asked them: what do they like about the carbon pilots? What do they dislike about the carbon pilots? If they were to design a carbon pilot, what would their ideal carbon program be? We asked them, what value do they see in other sustainability practices, besides just going after carbon outcomes? And what are their goals, what's their goal range for that? So, Tom, if we start with the end to end pilot dislikes and likes, what did we hear from the growers on that question?

Tom Daniel:

Well, one of the main things I heard, Sally, is they like getting paid. This particular pilot this year, everybody got paid and they liked the amount of dollars that came back to them through the program. So that's always the first thing. The second thing I heard about was simplicity. Most of the people said we made the data piece very easy for them. They didn't see any complexities with the process. Now, it was a lot of data. Everybody recognized that was a dislike, how much farm data you had to have for these programs. But the ease that we helped them through that I think was really brought out.

Tom Daniel:

I'll tell you one of the things that we ask around the other question, Sally, around, "What would you put into a program if you had it?" Almost universally, all the groups came back with, you've got to figure out a way to allow early adopters of these different practices. No-till, cover crop. How do we get them engaged into a carbon program and the word proportional additionality, which I can barely pronounce, came up two or three times. What's your thoughts on early adopters and proportional additionality?

Sally Flis:

Yeah, I'm sure we have heard that one and talked about that one before on the podcast, about - how do we get these early adopters involved? Proportional additionality is one approach. In the Canadian markets, they use proportional additionality, which means that it's not always about a new practice. It's about taking some of the practices you have and continuing to make them even better over time. And so it's not a big splash new practice, always, it's just that continuous improvement piece that we always talk about.

Sally Flis:

Some of the things that I think we're going to be going back and talking to the registries about with our other partners, and probably on our own, is how do we, either through soil testing, fractionate the different types of carbon that occur in the soil as practices are there longer, and that durability or risk piece of it. We all know that the first one to three years of using cover crops or no-till can be the hardest years to get through, and that's the time growers may get discouraged and quit a practice. If all we're trying to sign up are growers that are in that higher risk of not sticking with a practice category versus signing up growers that may not have as much soil organic carbon sequestered, because they're into a practice, it's a lot lower risk of that reversal of us having to go back out and replace those acres with new acres. Those are just some of the ways that we're probably going to approach it with the registries in the coming year and hopefully find a good fit, maybe different categories of credits and different values associated with them.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. The other question that came up for one of the characteristics of a ideal carbon program that came up is moving away from what we currently see out there today for pay-for-practice and more to an outcomes-based payment. There's always issues around outcome-based payments because today everybody's using pay-to-practice because that's easy. "Did you or didn't you," around a practice. So what are we talking about when we're saying truly an outcome-based payment?

Sally Flis:

So the outcome-based payments, we had some of our trials that involve that, with our partners at Soil and Water Outcomes Fund, where it's got to be modeled somehow. We can't measure the full impact of changing, especially soil organic carbon. It's going to take us five to ten years before we see that cumulative change in the soil, so it's all based on modeling. And when you think about something like the nitrous oxide emission reductions with nitrogen management, we can't go out and measure that in the field. It's based on modeling and emission factors that are associated with different practices in the field.

Sally Flis:

It's really trying to figure out how those things fit together. And they're not the best, but to get at quick systems for generating outcomes, we use the modeling approach. The challenge there is back to that data piece, Tom. We've got to have all the data in our hands to be able to run the model, to generate the outcome, to make the payment. And then, since carbon is not valued very high at this point in time, we've got to figure out what is that buyer willing to pay, whether it's us as Nutrien and Nutrien Ag Solutions, or it's another outside buyer to figure out what is really the value of a ton of carbon emission reduction or soil sequestration from an ag system?

Tom Daniel:

So one more question I'm going to ask you too then, Sally. We got a lot of requests from the different grower attendees at the Summit that said, "Hey, I've provided all of this data that's come into the system. Can you give me some feedback and tell me just what it looked like when you got through it?" So we gave them, a lot of them got summary reports, that said, "Your farm generated this amount of carbon based on the modeling." But I think what I was hearing is: can we actually, from an agronomic point of view, help them manage toward a carbon offset. I think we can, but what are your thoughts on that?

Sally Flis:

I think that's a goal we have is to figure out: how do we take all these tools in the Nutrien and Nutrien Ag Solutions toolbox and so many programs out there, including ours, are designed around: this is how many acres we want to sign up in a program. But instead shifted to growers that are getting that data collection done, it's in these systems. And then, when an opportunity comes up, we're just flagging them back and saying, "Hey, you look like a great fit for signing up for this program," instead of us going out and trying to find growers that might be interested. So really trying to flip the narrative on that as we get more data and more growers involved in programs.

Tom Daniel:

So Dusty, that's just a few of the questions we heard, and thank you because you moderated the session that we got of a lot of these questions. But one that I noted out of the Summit is the overall excitement. I was really surprised that we had great interaction with the growers, but their overall excitement to see these programs come to fruition some way.

Dusty Weis:

To see these programs come to fruition, but also just to be together as a group, sharing those insights, enjoying the incredible slate of entertainment and events that you guys have put together for them here at the Nutrien Ag Solutions Carbon Summit. And I just have to ask you, Tom and Sally both, this past few days here in New Orleans, obviously it's been great to be together and tape this podcast in person here. But outside of that, what's some of the favorite events that you've had while you've been here? You had the Bayou Brunch and Boil, you had ghost tours, what'd you really enjoy this week?

Sally Flis:

I enjoyed getting back over to the trade show and getting to see some of the people that I haven't seen in two and a half years. Because of my change in coming to Nutrien, and because we haven't had in-person meetings. So it was really nice to get back out and catch up with people and see how, for me, from my role at the Fertilizer Institute, to my role at Nutrien Ag Solutions, how am I going to still be able to work with some of those either partners or suppliers that we have?

Dusty Weis:

Yeah. I don't think I've had so many hugs in... Well, definitely not the last two years and maybe not in a long time. What about you, Tom?

Tom Daniel:

Food.

Dusty Weis:

Food.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah.

Dusty Weis:

Oh, the food. Oh, it was good.

Tom Daniel:

Yeah. I'm just telling you guys some of the food that we had here, we just came down from a crawfish boil that was unbelievable. And I just went up to the room and got a Pepcid, so I recognize my limitations, but I didn't stay to them.

Dusty Weis:

It's suffering, but it's suffering that's 100% worth it because they do know how to make food down here in New Orleans. It's been a lot of fun, and being able to meet with these growers here in person and hear their stories from the fields, of course, was a real treat. Seems like it's easier to just build partnerships and problem solve at an event like Commodity Classic. So we're going to continue this discussion coming up, just in a moment, here on The Future. Faster.

Dusty Weis:

This is The Future. Faster., a sustainable agriculture podcast by Nutrien Ag Solutions. I'm Dusty Weis along with Tom Daniel and Sally Flis. And we're joined now by Christine Chitwood, Northern High Plains Division research and sustainability manager at Nutrien Ag Solutions. Christine, thanks for joining us.

Christine Chitwood:

Thanks for having me.

Dusty Weis:

Christine, we were all recently together at the Nutrien Ag Solutions Carbon Summit with grower customers during Commodity Classic in New Orleans. And you were there with multiple growers who participated in the carbon pilot. So to begin, why were you interested in getting your grower customers into the carbon pilot?

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah, so it was a great meeting yesterday. Our customers that came had pretty good feedback. We learned a lot, the speakers there were awesome. It was nice to physically meet Tom and Sally, too. We've been talking and it was nice to meet everybody and see everybody together. But I think a lot of our interest from the Northern High Plains Division has really stemmed from our leadership. Don Geist, our division manager has always kind of fostered this culture of education and trying to be as efficient as possible with our inputs, with our customers, and then just always pursuing the next best thing.

Christine Chitwood:

So when this whole sustainability carbon thing came about and it was a buzzword and then we hear that there's a program that Nutrien's offering, it was definitely something that we wanted to be a part of because we felt that we had a lot of customers that are already doing a lot of sustainable practices. Our region covers a wide variety of environments, a lot of tough acres. Sandy soils, dry conditions, hot conditions, windy conditions. So if the opportunity was there to share some of our inputs and maybe be able to help shape what this thing looks like move moving forward, we wanted to be at the table. We wanted a seat at that table. We wanted to be a part of this learning experience and share our inputs and our feedback on the whole thing.

Dusty Weis:

The thing that strikes me most about it is, having met a lot of these customers and growers at the Commodity Classic event that you guys put on, I was struck by how nonchalant they all are about their sustainable practices. They're like, "Yeah, we've been doing this for years. And it's just what we do, it's right for our operation. And it's right for the environment." And it's almost like it's no skin off their nose. They were just happy that it was finally being recognized.

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah, definitely in our area, a lot of our growers have already been doing no-till for 20 years. They've already been implementing cover crops in a number of areas, especially with water allocations and things like that. They're already trying to get as much out of each drop of water that they're applying, and the same for nutrients as well. They're trying to get the most they can and keep as much of it where they want it. And so the opportunity to be a part of a sustainability program was definitely something they were interested in.

Sally Flis:

Christine, as Dusty mentioned, when we gathered at Commodity Classic for the Carbon Summit, we were looking for feedback from growers and the crop consultants and other Nutrien staff that participated in our 2021 pilot so that we can do better in 2022, and as we start thinking about already developing our 2023 program. So what were some of the biggest learnings that you and the growers that worked with our pilots in 2021 discovered through that process?

Christine Chitwood:

I'd say one of the biggest themes that we are hearing from our customers, as far as what they've learned, and then just personally too, is that a carbon program might not be for everybody, but sustainability is, and that's been a big learning experience. Early on, we had a lot of interest across our division from a lot of different salespeople and customers, but we selected kind of the more progressive guys to be a part of the program. Looking back, they maybe weren't the ones that were going to get the most payments because they were already doing no-till and cover crops, but to have their input along the way on how the program was going and how it fit for them was really valuable. Moving forward, I'm trying to position it as focusing on offering this kind of program to people that definitely have all their data in one spot. I think it's an easier fit for somebody that has all that information easily accessible.

Tom Daniel:

So you mentioned that you had a lot of growers that had already done a lot of practices, so they're progressive.

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah.

Tom Daniel:

They've already done no-till, they've done cover crop, they've done those type of things. And so we're working, trying to make sure they can participate in a program, whether it be nitrogen management or those type things. What are some of the things that the division has done toward helping growers recognize nitrogen reductions around variable rate and those type things? Are y'all engaged in those discussions with your growers?

Christine Chitwood:

Yes, definitely. And that kind of ties into, I don't want to jump the gun, but the research side of things.

Tom Daniel:

No, that's my next question, so jump right into research.

Christine Chitwood:

Okay, great. Our division has a very strong focus on research and that's why I was hired with my research background. Now I've been working for Nutrien for three plus years. We've been doing pretty high quality research trials on trying to answer that question exactly there. How can we reduce our nitrogen inputs and either increase yield, that'd be great, but maybe just get the same yield with less input. Maybe that's by improving the placement of our products or the time, things that are in the pilot program, some of the options for the payments. Or it's adding a product like some of our carbon based products, being able to help increase the efficiency of our fertilizers. We've done all sorts of trials across the whole division on all sorts of different environments. And we're actually pretty darn confident in some of the findings and the ability of some of our carbon based products to helping increase the efficiency and hold on to the nitrogen in the soil.

Tom Daniel:

I'll ask you a follow-up question to that because, look, Nutrien Ag Solutions, retailer, biggest in the world. And you're telling me we're going to reduce the amount of inputs we put on the acre. How does that work?

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah. So we get that question a lot and actually, that's why I like working for this company. I actually do feel like we are trying to make everybody be better. When the grower is successful, we're successful. And so we are a fertilizer company. And so the idea of telling somebody that maybe it'd be better if they reduce some of their inputs seems kind of backwards, like you mentioned, but we really do think that in the long run, maybe if you're not putting those financial inputs into nitrogen, you can maybe shift that into improving soil health or water management, that kind of thing.

Sally Flis:

So Christine, in the Northern High Plains Division, you mentioned in earlier comments that you have really had some strong support from your divisional leadership to move down these sustainable and carbon and other research pathways. What are some of the other events and what ways you're reaching out to growers to engage them on sustainability or soil health beyond the enrollment in some of the programs we have going around carbon?

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah, we do a lot. So I'd say that the leadership through people like Don. Also Mark Fabrizius, our plant nutritional manager, he plays a huge role in all of this as well. I work really closely with him on all of our research. We just have this culture of trying to be more sustainable with everything we do. Some of our sales people are personally inviting speakers that are nationally known experts on the topics, come in and talk about soil health and the regenerative ag topic. And we've had really good feedback and involvement from our growers at some of those meetings. Mark and myself and Don, and we have just a number of great staff that our job is to educate our sales force. It's to educate the growers.

Christine Chitwood:

I'd say that's the culture of the Northern High Plains Division is to just try to be as educated as possible. And that ties into the research thing too. That's why we do it. We want to know when, where, what, how to place our products. If there's a potential to reduce some of the inputs, where you can do that, what does that look like? Because we need to be confident knowing what we're doing. And then, we also need to build that trust with the grower. And I believe that the confidence in recommendations we might be giving the grower, I think a lot of the confidence can come from on-farm research trials and then as well as having outside experts come in and talk and kind of reassure re-confirm what we've been telling our guys and our customers as well.

Tom Daniel:

One of the things that I was on a call, I think when some of the research was discussed, but you've done a lot of work around water, and especially around irrigation. Kind of tell us a little bit about some of the work that you're doing on that, on the research side, and how that's being used in the field today.

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah. So we have partnered with a third party to do these, we call them the water probe trials, and this will be the fourth year that we're doing them across the division. We've found that these water probes that are drill and drop probes in the soil are a just fantastic tool for measuring some of the things that we're trying to improve on. So soil water absorption, water and filtration, ion movement in the soil, these probes can pick up on all of that. Working with the third party also helps take out some of the bias that we could be having. We've been using these water probes to measure how some of our carbon based products can help increase water infiltration and absorption in the soil, especially on a dryland acre. We've seen fantastic results there. It's really exciting.

Christine Chitwood:

Our guys now are very confident in our ability to position products like BlackMax and things like that because we have years of data backing up, having it in a two by two. For example, in a dryland setting, we're seeing 23% more water volume in the soil water absorption, increased plant uptake, increased plant energy across the year. That's huge on a dryland setting. And then, so these water probe trials we've worked with anywhere from 10 to 15 growers every single year across the whole division. Our division spans from Bridgeport, Nebraska, Greeley, Colorado, Colby, Oakley, Kansas, and then Stockton, Kansas. You kind of draw big triangle, huge area. So we have a great representation of different environments.

Christine Chitwood:

And then on the irrigated setting, we've been able to use these water probes to help improve timing and frequency and magnitude of irrigation events. In our area, we found that most people, and this has been validated through that third party, so it's nice to have that kind of extra opinion on this, but we found that most people in our area, even though we're super dry, are actually overwatering.

Christine Chitwood:

And so there's all sorts of different impacts of overwatering. That oxygen to water ratio is super important in the soil, as you know, Sally, soil scientist. So there's potential yield loss for just having too much water in the soil. People don't necessarily think about that. Sometimes they're putting water out there kind of as a safety net, but it comes at a cost. And we're trying to kind of quantify what some of those costs are. It's been an awesome, awesome trial this year. We're going to do the trial again this year across the division, and we're going to focus on maybe improving our timing and maybe looking at a split application of some of those carbon products, because we're seeing that carbon source being really important for the plant energy early on, but we're worried that in some situations it might kind of wear out at the end of the year. So maybe adding like a Terramar or a BlackMax later on could be a good fit for that.

Sally Flis:

So Christine, during the Carbon Summit, we asked the growers kind of what's their 3, 5, 10 year sustainability goals. As you think about, you mentioned a little bit what you're expanding on in those water trials that you've got going in 2022, what are you kind of thinking about? Or what does the division talk about for that longer term sustainability goal for the division and for your grower customers?

Christine Chitwood:

Yeah, I'd say our goal and just what we're trying to communicate with our customers is just: how can we be as efficient as possible? And that's a win for everybody. If the grower can figure out how to reduce some inputs here, and I have some training as a precision ag specialist too, so maybe it's adding variable rate. Maybe you're not actually reducing some of your inputs, but you're finding a way to put them in a better spot, maybe taking some inputs out of a lower producing area and putting them into the higher producing area, that kind of thing.

Tom Daniel:

I'd say your focus is going to remain on water, it sounds like, because you're going to go into 2022 with a water testing deal. And it sounds like you're looking at the humic acid fulvic acid products as being a guide to optimize, right?

Christine Chitwood:

Yes, absolutely. We're actually very confident in the ability of some of those C2 products, carbon products, to help improve efficiencies in water holding capacity and nutrient leaching. We've seen reduced leaching when you add those products in the soil as well. And I'd just say, our goal moving forward is to continue to do as many on-farm research trials as possible, because when a customer sees research, but it's from a couple states away or even a couple counties away, they're like, "That won't work on my farm." So our approach and my job is to get as many on-farm local research trials as possible, just to build that confidence in the grower, in our sales people. And just a division as a whole, the more trials we can get, the more years of replication, the more confident we're going to be. And I'd say just the overall goal of all the research trials is to figure out how to produce more with less. And so that really ties into the sustainability idea in general, I think.

Sally Flis:

So Christine, we get asked this all the time and I think I've asked quite a few of our guests this question. If there was one thing, and we all know it takes more than one thing to do sustainability in carbon, but if there was one thing you could ask, whether it's our suppliers, other parts of Nutrien or Nutrien Ag Solutions for help on, or as a new tool to help you guys in your division's sustainability journey, what would that be? Is it a new product? Do you guys feel like you've got all the products you need to go on this efficiency journey? Is it digital tools? Is it a piece of equipment from an equipment supplier that you guys work with or different monitoring? What's your resource concern as you look to continue down this improved efficiency pathway for your division and your growers?

Christine Chitwood:

I personally think that as Nutrien, we have so many tools that we can utilize. Agrible's there, we have Waypoint Labs, we have Echelon. I think it comes down to education and research, I really do. I think that's the missing link. Just giving our customers and our salespeople the opportunity to learn more about how they can actually apply these programs on their operation. And then, not only learning about the different options, but having whatever those options are be backed up with science, so they're comfortable with choosing one of the options, I guess.

Dusty Weis:

I've said before that water is certainly an important natural resource, but attention span is another important natural resource in 2022 and one that's in short supply. And as I've watched you and the rest of the Nutrien Ag Solutions team interacting with your growers at the Carbon Summit, I think just one of the most remarkable things that stuck out to me is just how attentive and how excited they are about this. We talk about these topics all the time, but seeing it in person with growers who, at the end of the day, have a responsibility to feed America and have a responsibility to keep their operations sustainable from an environmental standpoint, and from the standpoint of being able to pass it down to the next generation. Seeing all of this put to practices has really just been a joy for me.

Tom Daniel:

Hey, one thing I'd like to make sure we get included too, though, is Sally and I specifically want to thank the Northern High Plains because without Christine and Don and Mark and all that group working with us and helping us. They are truly an example of a division that's taking sustainability to the next level, and they've made it part of their business plan and how they go to business. And Christine, I just want to thank you guys for all your work you've done, before we ever showed up. This was work y'all been doing for years, but you've allowed us to feature it and you've helped your growers engage, and that to me is just phenomenal.

Christine Chitwood:

Thank you guys. It's been a real learning experience on all parties and you guys have been just fantastic to work with. I know there's a lot of moving parts and it really was a "learn as you go along the way" for everybody. And I think that from where it was in the beginning and when it started timing wise to where we are today, I'm really happy with how it turned out. And I know our customers are too, so it's been good.

Dusty Weis:

Well, and great things ahead, certainly. So Christine Chitwood, Northern High Plains Division research and sustainability manager at Nutrien Ag Solutions. Thanks so much for joining us on this episode of The Future. Faster.

Dusty Weis:

That is going to conclude this edition of The Future. Faster., the pursuit of sustainable success with Nutrien Ag Solutions. New episodes arrive every other week, so make sure you subscribe in your favorite app and join us again soon. Visit futurefaster.com to learn more. The Future. Faster. podcast is brought to you by Nutrien Ag Solutions, with executive producer Connor Irwin and editing by Larry Kilgore III. And it's produced by Podcamp Media, branded podcast production for businesses, podcampmedia.com. For Nutrien Ag Solutions, thanks for listening. I'm Dusty Weis.